Talk:Dancer Guide by Carnivor
Requested Move Per our naming conventions this really should be renamed. I proposed "Dancers guide by Rafage", but let us know if you want something else. Thanks. -- 14:38, 9 January 2009 (UTC) Fixed. -- 16:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC) Grammer Adjustments Hope no one minds but I've taken it upon myself to correct the spelling and gramatical errors on this page because it hurt me to read it the way it was. No offense to the author but I'm very Obsessive Compulsive about grammer. Still working on it. Fixed up to the "Weapons" section. Thanks! --Yamoto 17:51, 24 January 2009 (UTC) Edit: Page corrected for spelling and grammer problems. --Yamoto 17:51, 24 January 2009 (UTC) Hey, don't sweat it, Mr. Obsessive Compulsive! Nobody's perfect with their grammar, and lots of people make grammatical and spelling mistakes. --Ahkvan 21:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC) I am sorry for possible errors in grammar. It's partially my keyboard (bad connection to the reciever) and partially because i'm Norwegian and English is my second language. I appreciate any correctons made to bad grammar :) --Rafage 17:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC) NP it's my own obsession. I'm at work and I need something to do and for some reason that was keeping me occupied :D great guide though! --Yamoto 18:05, 31 January 2009 (UTC) TP Cost This is a decent guide for newer players, I just made a small tweak to Curing Waltz IV TP Cost. You had it at 75% and I lowered it to 65%. Also you seem to suggest that Drain Sambas cause additional damage like enspell.. but this is not the case. Drain Samba just takes a portion of the damage already done and feeds it to your HP. Salvin 18:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC) ---- Yes i am sorry about the 75% tp cost, this is of course 65%. However. If this is what you mean when i supposedly state that drain samba works like a enspell: "Drain Samba III because we didn't have a real tank and because it was kinda powerful (my words). After a few fights on the next colibri and trees, the party leader said, "Kinda powerful? It damn near destroys it." And it did. With the numbers our DDs were hitting those birds 50 hp each attack round wasn't unusual, counting in double attacks and so forth. Party moved from struggling without tank to a good exp party simply because the fights went along so much easier." Then please read it all over again, because thats not what im saying. It destroyed the mob, because it basically couldnt touch us anymore. The fights went along alot better with drain samba 3, and thus it destroyed the mob, because it was not the threat it used to be. I know fully well how drain samba works, i knew that before i even started leveling Dancer. This is what i have said on Drain Samba: "Drain Samba Causes party members' attacks to convert some of the damage taken by the mob into their own HP." This is a guide for newer players yes. more materials will come to sky and dyna when i have the time for it. On a general note, when players reach 75 i expect them to know the job enough not to need a guide, so why would someone even write a guide for veteran dancers? That is, like with every job, an argument waiting to happen. --Rafage 12:18, 18 February 2009 (UTC) --Yes this is the paragraph I was referring to as it is slightly misleading. I know you previously stated english is not your first language, maybe you would consider rephrasing it a bit? And do not be offended when I say this is a good guide for newer players, as I know you probably don't intend it for veteran players. --Salvin 19:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC) Other uses for DNC in endgame While I don't have DNC at 75 (yet! its the next job after war75) I do know a few things that DNC could be used for. ON KINGS(Faffnir/Nidhogg, Aspid, KingBehemoth) and WYRMS DNC can help claim with Animated Flourish. Once the fight begins, it depends on how your LS likes to do things. I do not have experience with the ToAU or WotG end game mobs as I had to quit FFXI when ToAU came out due to personal reasons (like getting married!). I have returned recently and play from time to time, but never have the 3hr+ you need to camp an HNM/KING. I might get back into instanced things like Einherjar, Dynamis, and KS99's, Sea mobs etc. Heavy Magic Group In this situation the wonderful SAM/thf + THF/sam setup for LIGHT skillchains and all the BLM's M.Bursting it (Burst II, Thunder IV, etc) the DNC can go with Quickstep and Stutter Step in order to lower the mob's Magic Def. This makes the difference of bringing BLM's Aero's on Kirin up from 800-900'ish to over 1k, I can only imagine what it'd do for fully merited BLM's bursting Burst II's... probably be able to break 2.5k each and with 8 BLM's... basically the DNC just did (~300'ish per BLM x8 blm's = 2,400) 2.4k damage, basically adding another BLM. And that's every time they skill/burst. There are concerns that a DNC will "Feed the mob tp!" While this is true... as all Melee/Blm's/SMN's give the mob TP, I don't think it is as significant as some LS leaders make it out to be. TP moves will occur regardless of how much you "Feed the mob" tp. On Faffnir/Tiamat/Jorm/Vrtra I know wings can be devistating, espcially if they're spammed. On the other hand, with 5/5 NFR and Med. a DNC can keep Stutter step on the mob... without ever hitting it. Heavy Melee Group Haste Samba alone is worth looking into. This gives an overall DoT improvement of (5haste samba*(.95cap)= 4.75% increase in melee damage. With merits this increaces to a (10*.95)= 9.5% increace in overall DoT. While this won't help with Hundred Fists MNK zerg, it will help with the (imo: cheesy) K-club DRK SE+BW zerg. On top of that, you'll be giving more acc and more att to all the members of the alliance, not just your pt. (By subtracting from the mobs eva you're basically giving everyone a sword madrigal and valor minnuette III-IV depending on mobs Def). This alone should be enough to warrent having a DNC in the endgame group for melee'centric styles of play... because it STACKS with the BRD and COR's buffs! Add to that some extra heals and *poof* you've got a very valuable member of the alliance that can replace a RDM or WHM in the melee PT while giving everyone in the alliance 2 Bard-like songs... 3 of them(acc, att, and or regen or refresh)for their own pt... If feeding TP to the mob is an issue, then we just have to prove those that think this wrong. First, remind them that DNC has a Subtle Blow III, and with Auspice(if whm's are around) it reduces TP given to the mob by 25%, which is half way to cap WITHOUT subtle blow gear. A single DNC won't give so much TP to the mob that it makes a noticeable (by noticeable I mean by those that arn't actively looking for the difference. For most people this is at around 10-15%) increace in the mob's number of TP moves. Some mobs even have a TP regen ability (like Kirin and Fafnir) where they will gain TP or use TP moves even if none has been given to them from spells/mob melee hits/alliance melee hits. Besides... if you're in a Melee'centric group... EVERYONE will be adding TP anyway... And note, I'm considering the situation as 2 PLD's tanking, which count as Melee for Atonement WS's For example, say you're in an alliance against an HNM, and to be conservative we'll assume that the mob is not getting TP from another source(such as the mob's melee attacks, spells cast on it, etc.) and we'll say that the melee are kinda slow in gaining TP (thus we are using an overly conservative example) and only WS once every minute, and all have a seven hit build for 2h'ers. This means that the mob is getting N*(100+(3*7)) TP per min. Say you have 6 melee (again an overly conservative estimate as this is how many melee are in a NON-melee-centered alliance aka the Manaburn style alliance of 2 PLD and two sets of SAM/THF + THF/SAM making light/darkness for BLM MB's) That would give the mob 6*(100+21) or 726 TP/min, where the mob will WS at 300 TP that means 2.42 TP moves from the mob every min. Now add a DNC, who gains TP at the same rate (unlikely as DNC has a LOT of TP building mechanics, but again we're taking a conservative stance on the "proof"). That means the NM will get 7*(100+28) or 896 TP/min for 2.98 TP moves per min. This is a total increase of 1/2 a TP move per min or 1 TP move per 2 min. Now... recall that DNC has that wonderful innate Subtle Blow and say they have auspice and Subtle Blow gear (Raja's ring etc.) which reduces their TP given to the mob by 30% (Isn't too hard, Rajas + Auspice alone get to this point). This means DNC would instead give the TP of 6*(100+21)+(100+3)*(1-.3) = 798 TP/min, which translates to 2.66 TP moves/Min for a total increase of 9%. Now remember, this is a VERY conservative estimate with a "Mediocre" melee aliance that has NO subtle blow for anyone other than the DNC. Considering that most melee centric alliances go with 10-12 melee (if not more) then the lonely DNC who's adding as much as any non-SoulVoice BRD to the FULL alliance would increse the TP gain rate of the mob by even less. For proof: 12*1089, 1089+[(100+3)*(1-.3)= 1161. For a 6% increace in the number of TP moves. Bottom Line: DNC will add 6-9% more TP moves in an alliance without the mob getting TP from ANY other source. This means at the (overly)conservative end of things they will add a barely noticeable ammount of TP moves, while at the high end no one would really notice if they weren't looking for it. Remember: this example assumes there is no TP gains from spells cast on the mob, mob's TP gain from attacks, mob's TP gain from Regain/Meditate/natural TP recovery (such as Kirin or Fafhogg), or any other source of TP for the mob. If you include those, the % increace in number of TP moves becomes even lower. Avatar Battle This is when you take many SMN's with (BRD/COR/RDM)'s in their group to give them enough MP to summon Garuda/Levi and have them all use PredatorClaws or other high damage skill from their avatar, creating a hateless form of burst Damage that can be sustained. This is the method my LS used back in the day for taking down the 3 CoP wyrms (1st NA shell on the server to take down all 3). If this method is still used, DNC brings to the table the exact same things they did with the melee group... minus the haste. DNC and COR are probably the only 2 jobs that give "buffs" to pets, and thus would be just as valuable as the bard... especially if you put them in the tank pt and have them go /sam for extra healing. --Noreenoflakshmi 20:17, September 26, 2009 (UTC) Thank you for this :) While my guide includes some End-game info, it comes from my personal experience and observations while playing on dnc. What you mention however, i have not gotten around to try that yet. People are exceedingly "suspicious" to bringing a dnc to anything end-game. I had a long-time persuasion process to be allowed to bring it to sky when i did that ;) I have duoed some avatars with a sam though, garuda and shiva to be exact. and its way to easy to beat duo that way. Concerning the acc atk being boosted through eva / def reduction i have covered that during the guide i believe. I will add the info you provided to the guide and link up your name to it ;) --Carnivor-Asura 15:32, September 28, 2009 (UTC) Added some more info as I came accross it for endgame, as well as a mathy "lite" proof of how much DNC adds to the TP spam of a mob. --Noreenoflakshmi 23:11, January 9, 2010 (UTC) Steps stacking While I agree with you that step stacking is awesome and important I think this needs revision based on party build. Dancer is SO prevalent now both main and sub that there is frequently a 2nd party member able to land steps (at least past level 40). At that point I think "Divide and Conquer" is much more efficient, working out between you and the other steppers which step you will use. Obviously, you should choose which step to use based on the party you are in and the critter you are killing. With the step duties divided more of your TP is available for other tasks like curing, keeping Sambas up and even weapon skills.